Consider yourself lucky if this installation hasn't damaged your circulating pump inside the unit. Fits These Models Typically recirc lines connect at the furthest fixture and allows hot water to flow through the main trunk lines. Then replace the heater cover and turn the gas or power back on. Is this correct for the function of the system? The only place that quickly gets hot (and really hot) is the guest bath which happens to be right next to the water heater. Next, hook hoses to the valves, then open them to drain the water. $257.16. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? Did you mount the contact switch next to the Navien? That means that this household wasted 8 gallons of water per day just waiting for hot water. Not really. Is the plumbers reasoning valid here? House was built in late 1990s and is 2 story, built on a slab foundation. Create a chart to regulate hot water usage. On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. Hi Mike, we think about water as hot vs. cold. The pump will cost you $200 to install, $5.50-$32 to operate, will waste $160-$400 per year and will save you $4-$50 on your water bill. Well tackle the installation and running costs of a circulating pump in full near the end. Older Navien heater models are prone to flow sensor issues. Its a piece of cake to bleed the air out of your Navien recirculation pump. Make sure the major electrical cord is grounded correctly. Obviously, you might be wondering: If the recirculation pump loop is running continuously, youre probably expanding too much electricity just to get hot water faster. If youre using this pump and cant fix it yourself, you can call a professional mechanic to fix it. Weve tried to include every concern you might have regarding turning off the water recirculating pump. For example, an open or shorted sensor causes this issue. Some brands/models dont include it. So, hire a professional to deal with the issue. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman. Wash it under the water with a brush, let it dry, and then place it back. On-Demand Mode. Check to see if the water valves are open. Open the service port on the host side and the isolation valve on the cold side, pushing water through the system. NEC 310.16 Table: Copper And Aluminum Wire Ampacity Chart, NEC 310.12 Table: Wire Sizes For 100-400 Amp Services (83% Rule), kWh To Therms Calculator + Conversion Chart (1 kWh = 0.03412 Therms), MMBTU To Therms Calculator + Chart (1 MMBTU = 10 Therms), Therms To MMBTU Calculator + Chart (1 Therm = 1/10 MMBTU), AWG To Circular Mils Chart (For 4/0 AWG To 20 AWG). It would be nice to get the hot water to the faucet especially the shower in the morning as quickly as possible. Lets start by looking at how these pumps actually work: If it takes forever for the hot water to start running, it usually means that there is a long pipe between a boiler (or a hot water heater or tankless water heater) and the faucet. Water recirculating pumps just circulate the water; the water pressure should stay the same. So, keep reading till the end. Let the vinegar cycle through the cold side for 45 minutes. However, some gas needs to be used to heat water for the pump to circulate; the gas usage for this is pretty much insignificant relative to how much gas we use when powering the instant hot water heater. Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. Continue with Recommended Cookies. It shows that the water adjustment valve is not operating properly. If your system is re-circed as close as possible to the fixtures (ask yourself do I have two hot waterlines for each fixture?) Allow the vinegar to circulate through the heater for a minimum of one hour (longer if the pump runs at less than four gallons per minute). Also the unit needs to be set to utilize the recirculation feature. These are the kinds of issues that can occur if you aren't aware of the automatic appliances that are connected to your system (and don't shut them off along with the water). I think it's 100F. In compliance with California's . I'm fairly handy with DIY plumbing, but not and expert and I know when I am out of my league. First, you need to consider Things to consider when sizing the busiest usage period or peak time. Call Navien and explain if yours is older. Turn off the electrical supply to the pump Locate the small bleed screw on the pump Remember the pump is full of water, so place the cloth underneath the screw Turn the screw very slowly (less than a quarter turn is usually enough) to allow any air to escape Tighten the screw Mop up any excess water Turn the electrical supply back on Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. Thats 2,920 gallons of water per year wasted. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not. Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Use your pump when you want to use it. - If there is not the fore mentioned set up he probably did the best he could do without re plumbing your house with double hot (returns to your Navien! Allow it to dry for some time before fixing it again. On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. How Does A Hot Water Recirculation Pump Work? I mounted the contact switch inside the cabinet per the kit instructions. We don't tend to provide any plumbing advice or any advice that should come from a certified professional. And thats a wrap! The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. Press J to jump to the feed. Then descale a flush the heater following the steps listed below. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. Where did you find that info? A hot water recirculating pump will save you money, especially if you have a larger family. I guess the recirculation line will be the only one that is copper. Navien tankless whole house HWH. The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water. This extra pipe is installed parallel to conventional piping. Follow Up: struct sockaddr storage initialization by network format-string, Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology, Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying. Most of information is available in the install manual but some of it requires a phone call to Navien support. Note on tankless hot water heater recirculation pumps (double trouble solved). It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. There are special tankless water heater recirculation pumps for Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units; we will cover them all. It looks like you're using an ad blocker. It only takes a minute to sign up. Close the isolation valves to the cold-supply and recirculation lines. The average electric tankless water heater needs at least 120 amps to work. On a side note, if your Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, it may have air locks or installation problems. Recirculation valve for use with NPE-A series tankless water heaters Designed for recirculation of domestic hot water in applications where a dedicated return line is not available. I have a new Noritz tankless water heater that includes an AquaMotion recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. How To Turn Off A Water Recirculating Pump? Step 1 Remove the plug from the socket on the end of the wire that connects to your circulator pump. I have a tankless water heater with an external recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. Pump the white vinegar into the cold side, up through your water heater, and out the hot side. There are two options when it comes to tankless heaters and recirculation pumps: If you have difficulty finding out which brand is the best for a tankless water heater with a recirculation pump, you should check the newest Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Navien ComfortFlow is the first and only system that incorporates a built-in insulated buffer tank and recirculation pump. Recirculation Settings by pressing down the OK button. If your system displays this code, you need to confirm the water pressure is within good ranges. SEER = (1 EER100% + 42 EER75% + 45 EER50% + 12 EER25%)/100, Total Heat (BTU/hr.) You can change the cold water inlet thermistor if necessary. If required, replace the thermistor. Circulation pumps can wreck havoc on your lines if you run them constantly due to friction at bends causing pinhole leaks. Unscrew the plug cover with a suitable screwdriver to remove it. This item: Navien 30010780B Circulation Pump. This can be determined based on the following factors: The average water usage for different hot water uses are as follows; Check this too: Insinkerator Hot Water Dispenser How-to & Troubleshooting Guide. Read the users Navien nr-240a manual to get information on how to flush the heat exchanger and reset the remote for Navien tankless water heater. For moving the pump to another sink, you would have to talk with a plumber. Examine the wiring and thermistors condition. You are using an out of date browser. If you add a powerful hot water circulation pump at the heater (not under the sink), the hot water will reach the faucet much faster. This is the system you can see in the photos above. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Here are some of the leading causes of cold water production; Which means there isnt enough time for the water to heat up. Connect a regular garden hose to the hot side service valve. If you have a Navien tankless water heater this can be done by simply pressing a . Then, tighten up the cap again once you remove all the air from the loop. To calculate the size of the heater, you will need to add up the amount of water required at a particular time. Here is the final install. Navien NaviCirc Recirculation Valve Description How it works Specifications Dimensions We have one faucet in the kitchen that has instant scalding hot water the second you turn it on . (With Water Savings Analysis), Note On Tankless Water Heater Hot Water Recirculation Pumps (Double Trouble), How Much Electricity Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? 2. If this does not work, hire a professional to repair or replace any damaged parts. Those are quite significant savings. Thanks for confirming and letting me know about the potential damage to the circulating pump as that hadn't occurred to me. We were advised of this upon installation. Apart from that, you can easily turn it on/off on your mobile whenever you wish. It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. I don't hear the heater "fire up" right away when the tap is opened and can't tell if the recirculation pump is running. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman to fix the issue. Without the need for extra piping, this type of hot water circulation pump system also comes at a much lower cost. To remedy the issue, consider increasing the gas supply to the heater. $197.08 $ 197. Reassemble the heater and turn on the hot and cold water valves. This serves two functions: You save water. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. Press the Power button on the front panel to turn off the water heater. Do the plumbers explanations make any sense at all or does it sound like BS? link to Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? This breaks down the scale and flushes out the sediment. However, I have envious of those who have the NPE with the hot button and wifi link. Now, when installed, the recirculating pump makes it seem that the hot water starts flowing right away like magic. This may require chasing the supply lines. Worst case is your plumber might have to call since they require them to maintain it. Error Code E438 It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. You have to inspect the sensors connectors to confirm they are not wet and fixed correctly. To install a full recirculating pump system, you need to consult with a plumber because you will need an extra pipe. Get in touch with Navien technical support at 800-519-8794. The 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors are used to connect the pump to your existing pipes. I have alos checked my HeatBox settings to ensure the temp is set high enough for my domestic supply (set to around 120 degrees). T = the water cooling, normally 5 C determined at the farthest consumption point [C]. Our articles, products and services are for informational purposes. We always take the pros vs. cons approach because nothing is perfect. We have to keep the valve on and slowly hot water comes out. I recently had a 240A2 installed. Can I swap out the mainboard in the NR240A to an NPE240A board to get all that features? You can adjust the temperature while the display is flashing. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink for a few seconds the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. It tells you about the improper operation of the flow sensor. Yes, you can turn it off by yourself. Going off the grid sounds noble, satisfying and eco-friendly. Question: How much does it cost to buy a water recirculating pump? Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. Examine and clean the filter in a cold water inlet. We have some suggestions for you if you want to buy the best wifi sockets. If it does, you could trigger the operation to save money whenever your system detected 'away' or however you've got it programmed. What about adding the NaviLink WiFi board and controlling it from your phone anywhere? For more information, please see our Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. Using a corrosion-free flow sensor made of stainless steel is a better option. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. It can also damage your main water heater and can create recirculation problems. Im interested in information on a tankless water heater with a built in recirculating pump. You can turn off the recirculating pump in various ways. Many systems turn on and off automatically to keep the water within a specified temperature range. What kind of range do you get from the remotes? Another suggestion I can give you is to maintain and service your Navien water heater according to the manual. Check the wiring and cold water inlet two thermistors and make sure both are in good condition. All you have is a crossover valve underneath a sink somewhere also when plumbed correctly, all of that will only function with proper dip switch settings, perimeter settings, which is Pacific per heater model. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. It is a visible sign that your devices cold water inlet two thermistor is having some issues. To select a recirculation mode, you must set the DIP switches on the front panel, and set the position of the 2-way valve inside the water heater. It can take anywhere from 10 seconds to 1 minute for the hot water to reach the faucet. You must log in or register to reply here. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. For most existing homeowners, integrating a recirculating home pump comfort system on top of the existing piping makes much more sense: Heres why this is the most popular type of hot water recirculating pump in homes: You use the existing water pipe alone. That may present a problem in the summer when you need cold water; turning the pump off during the summer months solves the problem. Hi Howy, well, the circulating pumps are usually powered by electricity, so they dont use gas. For example, if you get the tees backward, the recirculation pump will not function properly. First, place a " thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. Note: Remember to turn off power to the heater before replacing the gasket. Free returns are available for the shipping address you chose. All you have to know is how to turn it off. The leading causes of the intermittent flame; You can fix these issues by maintaining and cleaning the heater. Then what are we waiting for? We can go from there with up to 3 hours of dedicated live coaching on the telephone if needed. Is there a proper earth ground point in this switch box? All done in software. here are some problems that you may have to deal with in the future or have experienced already primarily found in older Navien heater models; Though not a common occurrence, it is still essential to know how to identify these issues. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. It will help you avoid common water heater issues and let you operate the unit smoothly. Thanks! but you stopped short for me. I am having issues with it ever since: water to certain places in my house seems to just stay warm (kitchen sink and master bathroom) unless I fully open the faucet all the way on hotand then still I have to wait a minute plus for the water to heat up. Hello Irving, Trutankless is an Arizona-based brand of tankless water heaters with built-in recirculation pumps. Watt recirculating pump installed on the water heater (pump plugged into standard 110/120V outlet, 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors, valve). Like with most things, a lot of noise coming from your hot water recirculation pump isn't a good sign. Next, check and remove the intake filter from the heater. But, making sure youre doing it the right way is important. I used a razor and carefully pried each side of the RM11 open to reach the programming switch. This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. Unfortunately, the heat exchanger cannot be fixed and has to be replaced. 2 Types Of Hot Water Recirculation Pumps Used In Homes, Type 2: Recirculating Home Pump Comfort System, Advantages And Disadvantages Of Hot Water Recirculation Pumps, How Much Do Hot Water Circulation Pumps Cost + Installation Cost + Running Cost? An open or short thermistor can be the root cause of this problem. My pipes arent big enough 2. How do hot water recirculation pumps work to get hot water fast? Turn the pump off and dump the vinegar. 30000466A Navien Circulation Pump NAPU9GLPCT33 . Is this a common drawback with the under-sink crossover valve? "The recirculating pump costs about the same as operating a 25-watt light bulb," says Umberto Griccino, a commercial plumber and HouseGrail consultant. Separate Recirculation Pumps. If a hot water faucet is open, you can adjust the temperature only from 98-110 F (37-43 C). First, place a thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. If you are unsure of whether the recirculation pump was correctly installed, contact Navien technical center or the NSS agent who installed the heater. Also, check the feeder valve and pressure relief valves activity. Solution: Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valve's direction. You dont have to install an additional pipe. Why Its Important To Turn Off The Water Recirculating Pump? Where does this (supposedly) Gibson quote come from? last week. Refer to the user manual to locate the Hot Button and then press it to activate hot water recirculation. This setup is very similar to the one I have with my 40 gallon tank setup with recirc/return line by using an X10 home automation module to program the remote to turn the pump on for 4 minutes and automatically turn off whenever someone presses it before taking a shower. Remove the screw that secures the air intake filter and then remove the filter. Otherwise, turn it off. Get a sump pump and connect the cold service hose to the sump pump. IF it does, could it be controlled remotely? When its time to work with a recirculating pump, you should follow some instructions to avoid further hassles. The Navien is smart enough to stop recirculation when it recognises hot water has made the entire loop. Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. Find applications from Grundfos related to this subject. Hopefully its clear which is which when Im down there. If you fail to stop the noise after trying all the steps I mentioned, I bet there is a complex problem with the unit. The buffer tank eliminates the "cold water sandwich" effect and issues of minimum flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. The water heater will not provide hot water instantly. It means there is some issue with a water pressure sensor. And. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. Is this noise normal coming from my Navien tankless heater? If the problem does not get resolved, replace the motherboard or control board or hire a professional t do it. Once again, there are a few different things it could be. All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. Then, you can change the tank thermistor if needed. I installed this system a few days ago and I've been trying to trouble shoot the noise that's coming from the re-circulation pump. 1. 10.6 Maintenance 10.7.3 NPE-180A/240A Pump P-Q Curve The Navien NPE-180A and NPE-240A water heaters that are used . Is there a recirculating pump for the tankless water heater known as Trutankless? Pour two gallons of white vinegar into a 5gallons bucket. Examine and wash the intake air filter underneath running water using a toothbrush. Also, check if the electrical cord is grounded correctly or not. But, you can buy a new recirculating pump for $200-400. Working well so far. A recirculation system is a hot water line that runs throughout the house and returns back to the water heater. Now, that comes to the question, can I turn off my hot water recirculating pump? This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. The timer has control over when the pump is working continuously. Hello Frank, one of the disadvantages of recirculating pumps is that you have to wait for cold water a bit. This issue is more common in older heater models. You also have to flush the heat exchanger. When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. So you'll find the same info whether you're looking for the Navien 240A manual, the Navien NPE-240S manual, Navien NPE-180A manual or similar. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Start by turning off the service valves and removing the hoses. Change the thermistor if needed. Heres the deal on how to get the hot water faster from a water heater: When we turn on any faucet, the hot water needs to travel from the hot water heater to the faucet. Besides, the E782 indicates that there is something wrong with the main panel communication. You can set it to run in the morning before work, and in the evening. Brand: Navien. I have an NR240A for about 10 years now. Press either the Up and the Down button to switch between any of these recirculation settings: Air in the line: If there has been a power outage or air has gotten into the line for another reason, the pump can make a lot of noise. The large valves should be in the off position, whereas the service valves should be in the on place. That means that all the costs of the hot water circulation pump are covered by the water savings. 2. Let's hop in! Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. DC Wire Gauge Calculator: What Gauge Wire (12V, 24V, 48V)? Navien Flow Sensor. The error code E441 informs about the open thermistor or short circuit problem. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. Depending on the age of your Navien NPE-A model, he did you a favor. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Take care! With two pipes, you can create a loop between the water heater and faucets. Of course, the most important part is the pump itself, so well start with that: These are the standard building blocks of every recirculation pump for getting hot water quickly. Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get.